paycheck to paycheck. of course, the idiocy coming out of washington by default and about downgrade and about government shutdown, that doesn't help the economy any either. >> well, gary, bottom line, taxes, do they help or hurt the economy? >> well, they always hurt the economy. up, going back to the point that steve made, let's stipulate that he's right. the big difference then in the '90s the government spent a lot less as a percent of gdp. when you raise taxes you're taking it from an efficient source, the market, the consumer, and giving it, by definition, an inefficient source of spending, the government. go through their zillion programs they run, cost overruns, the government spends less efficiently than we do. here's the statistic everyone should know. since the recession arted, median household income is down almost 10%. and even with all the stimulus it hasn't budged at all. unemployment has come down but median household income has flat lined at an historic low level. that's the reason can you take -- you can look at the increase in taxes, obama care, red tape, all that.